" Self Realization has come to unite all religions- we must go on - not only those who are here but thousands of youths must go North South East and West, to cover the earth with little colonies, demonstrating that simplicity of living plus high thinking leads to greatest happiness." Yogananda (as quoted on Ananda's site)
Spiritual living, sustainable living, simplicity...all good things. I am interested in attempts current and potential.
"Thousands of youths", young kriyabans / devotees...intriguing...
Suggested reading: Village Swaraj - Gandhi
How to burn the roots of depression - Yogananda
Spiritual living, sustainable living, simplicity...all good things. I am interested in attempts current and potential.
"Thousands of youths", young kriyabans / devotees...intriguing...
Suggested reading: Village Swaraj - Gandhi
How to burn the roots of depression - Yogananda
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Re: Call for change
Wed, August 15, 2007 - 11:01 AMhi, Brian --
yes, it's interesting that Ananda sought to develop this particular angle of Yogananda's teachings, whereas SRF preferred to forget, mostly, about his saying there needed to be communities 'of brotherly love' spreading out all over the world.
especially with what's coming to the world, as Yogananda saw it, very difficult and challenging times where survival (on all levels) would require living in successful spiritual groups.
I've heard about tons of communities springing up that people just decide, out of their friendship or desire to create community, to make and I don't think any of them are as successful as when communities develop around a central spiritual ideal. when people have a common focus or teaching, and a shared vision based around that, THEN they have a shot at real success.
I think Ananda has done a great job promoting and sustaining community living.
for myself, I'm interested in creating community around the teachings of a different living master who is ALSO, like Yogananda, insisting that it is of vital importance for people to live together harmoniously in spiritual communities.
for sure, rediscovering the value of creating a spiritual family and living together, working together, meditating together, helping others together, and celebrating triumphs, tragedies and occasions like weddings and births is one of the best antidotes I know to depression, anxiety, ill health, and fear.
in my area, we have already a strong community of spiritual folks who are looking to go the next step -- to find some land and start a real ashram community together. as it is, even though we're all still living in separate homes (though a few people have banded together as housemates and are creating mini-communities), the level of inner health and healing that comes from being part of an active spiritual group that meets often, meditates together and helps the homeless people in our community, is visible.
it's quite inspiring.
and vital -- I believe that as things get tougher and tougher, people will be forced to live more and more in community. the successful ones will be spiritually-based.
Alx -
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Re: Call for change
Wed, August 15, 2007 - 2:34 PMYou said it...isolation, depression, etc...seem to be prevalent & true communities are certainly a way to help this. I agree that the gravity of a teaching like Yoganandas or any that grips people like that, provides ample gravity to hold people together - more so than most other things that bring people together because it goes so deep. My beliefs are foremost what would be called spiritual but this also encompasses a deep sensitivity and respect for the environment. A community approach to food production, land use, transportation - these all take great steps toward living more sustainably and simply. Gandhi talked a lot about this.
Good to know people are coming together around these things -
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Re: Call for change
Thu, August 16, 2007 - 1:33 PMsounds like wonderful projects....
best of luck in your endeavors...
I found reading about Yogananda's school for children...and also Rabindranath Tagore's school for children both very inspiring examples of community in action...
Of course that is different than a community of adults...
I lived in an ashram for a year. It was more of a meeting place for people with aspiration, than a true loving and caring community. But it was supportive to the goal of spiritual aspiration.
I think to make a community work, you have to have people well versed in the kind of diplomatic exchanges that occur in family counseling or other kinds of directed activities. Otherwise, it can be hard to control people's egos.... -
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Re: Call for change
Fri, August 17, 2007 - 12:04 AMhi, Jon --
I lived in an ashram for five straight years, in India, and although the individuals were going through their stuff (and all of our personalities reflected that peculiar brand of intense self-absorption and egoism that spiritual people go through at a certain point), it did even out and was a beautifully loving place.
any place where deep spiritual energy is cooking is going to be a kind of zoo -- I accept that as a given. *grinning* having lived through the zoo stage and seen its potential to blossom into a lotus pond, well, that's something to share with others, I think.
you're definitely right about having folks who're diplomatic be part of a successful community -- it sure helps.
but friction is an essential part of union, too, and being able to take the ego-whacks with a good sense of humor is an important part of spiritual maturity. I didn't mind the egos run amok (well, mostly) that I experienced in the ashram where I lived (including my own ego, sadly, run horribly amok) -- we all learned not to take anything too seriously while everyone's purifying out lifetimes of karma.
Alx -
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Re: Call for change
Fri, August 17, 2007 - 10:39 AMyou sound a lot more illumined about the process than I was!!
I was only there for a year and I was 21.
I guess if would be different if I were older.
I've done a few retreats at some Zen centers. Most human nonsense functioning there also. Same stuff as in the world...people on power trips, all the various nonsense....
I wish I had found a place where the love and spirituality had become the pervading vibration of the place.
My ashram was populated by too many young folks who had a more adolescent approach to spirituality...you know...more is better, tougher is better...and not enough of the human qualities of peace and patience and caring. All that sacrificed up to zeal.
I don't know if I have ever fully recovered my confidence in the lunacy of this approach to spirituality. Too often, I am just a gung-ho, hell-bent loon......a loon for God maybe, but that still makes me a loon nevertheless.
It is always those gentle, subtle qualities of the heart that are the real spirituality....not debating theology and all the other nonsense that I de-evolve down into.... -
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Re: Call for change
Sun, August 19, 2007 - 3:19 PMhey, Jon -- !
such a lovely post you wrote.
my perception is that any time you find a group of people dedicated to spiritual evolution, you will see all the blocks come up -- blocks to enlightenment, I mean, the 'negative' qualities -- like egoism, vanity, jealousy, etc. they REALLY get stimulated by deep spiritual energy. it seems totally counter-intuitive, on one hand. on another hand, if we understand about purification, then it makes sense.
that's where the real compassion comes in, I think -- being able to live with lunatics (and recognizing oneself to ALSO be one of those lunatics!) in a spiritual path and appreciate each person as a divine character. even though they're acting like idiots. it also teaches us to go easier on our own selves -- when we catch ourselves acting like total idiots! ah, humility -- that's a real virtue!
it's amazing -- AMAZING -- how really sensible, reasonable, loving people encounter spiritual practice and suddenly turn into raving mad-people.
if I learned anything in all my years of spirituality, it's that this is a necessary (and not-very-pretty) phase. hence the need for ashrams, monsteries and other secluded spiritual places. no need to inflict that craziness on the rest of the world!
*grinning*
Alx -
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Re: Call for change
Mon, August 20, 2007 - 2:10 PMAlx, I visited the Encinitas hermitage of SRF this past June and have been considering spending a longer period there...having spent little time in the ashram setting I am curious as to how the ashram experience weighed out in your mind - that is the benefits that come from being around people of like mind versus what you described as the ego qualities that really get stimulated by deep spiritual energy.
Cheers,
Brian -
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Re: Call for change
Mon, August 20, 2007 - 3:54 PMhi, Brian --
hey, Encinitas is a beautiful place. I've visited and enjoyed its vibrations.
well, huh. I spent seven years off and on (and five years dedicatedly on) living in an ashram, and of that I can honestly say that many years were, on the personality level, a kind of torture.
it is very tough to remember that once you're living in a community under the guidance of a master or divine lineage (guru parampara) -- in my case it was with a living saint, but the same certainly applies to Yogananda's presence and lineage -- EVERYTHING that happens is orchestrated by the divine.
not a person says anything -- well-intentioned, annoying, challenging, or even highly negative! -- without its being truly spoken by the master to you. it's like confronting the worst of yourself -- and aspects of yourself that you honestly, truly, didn't even know were IN you to begin with!!!!!!! -- in many mirrors, on a semi-constant basis. *grinning* I think this is why deep spiritual channels are not for the faint at heart. nor is spiritual community.
so -- my own experience is that whatever I needed to burn out, reams of personality habits and karmas, and accrued negativity (ways of thinking, judging others, holding blame and resentment, emotions like anger, jealousy, depression, reactiveness, self-loathing, etc.), was constantly reflected back to me through the faces of (and interactions with) my colleagues.
the hilarious part -- in restrospect! not in the moment when it was happening, since everything then seems very very serious! -- is that we were ALL going through this simultaneously -- ie, 60 or 70 people all acting as mirrors for one another's purification.
yikes.
for a few years there, we really all looked like psychiatric patients. like kindergartners run entirely amok. it's kind of embarrassing, actually, to think about things I did and said during those years..... but it's all part of the beautiful process of surrender and learning, of spiritual purification and burning out the seeds of karma.
my idea about the benefits of this -- it is unparalleled in terms of spiritual growth, evolution and maturity. there is absolutely NO substitute for living in a highly charged spiritual community and getting repeated chances to unwind your own illusions.
also -- the ego qualities that come up -- MUST come up! as part of serious sadhana and community living -- are coming up to be WASHED OUT. they're not just showing themselves to torture us, and everyone around us.
it's part of the divine mechanism -- when people get an influx of high divine energy, of real shakti, like what happens with deep sustained meditations, the kriyas, or spiritual processes, it is natural that the egoism skyrockets.
shakti -- the divine feminine power and energy that resides in each of us -- is, from one angle, egoic in nature.
but it's always helping us to purify it out -- and the idea about doing spiritual sadhana or living in a community of people all engaged in similar spiritual work is that it ACCELERATES, dramatically, our purification.
so -- it's a great blessing, in my experience, to live in spiritual community. at the same time, I can honestly say it isn't FUN, especially to the ego (which is constantly getting bashed!) -- but at the deep level, at the soul level, I can't imagine living any other way or finding a more profound satisfaction in spiritual life.
does that make sense? it is a real paradox -- akin to the medicine tasting really nasty but you know, ultimately, it's really good for you!
*grinning*
Alx -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Call for change
Tue, August 21, 2007 - 10:48 AMthanks again for sharing your thoughts..
take care
Jon
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Re: Call for change
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 4:00 PMThank you Brian, and Alx and Jon for discussing this topic of spiritual community.
Community is a spiritual ideal I’ve held dear most of my life.
After all, in someway we all seek true companions on our life’s journey.
I first visited the Encinitas hermitage for a week in late September of 1976.
On the day of my departure I whispered a brief conversation with a fellow retreatant,
And it was then that I heard of the Ananda community.
So I decided to make Ananda my next stop, which I did; and made many friends there.
I visited Ananda often over a, more then, 10 year period.
A few times I stayed a month or two at a time, but never felt inclined to remain.
And the only reason why is that it seemed just a little to closed off to me.
I’d like to be part of a more universal expression of Yoganandaji’s Ideal;
absorbing the truth within all paths, without solely embracing only one, or two.
I’m basically a yogi and I find this one path of self realization in every esoteric tradition.
During that same time I Also lived in a small intentional community, in Colorado.
I have visited various ashrams and communities over the years,
But I’ve never quite found my ideal community in form.
Ideal; truly functional conditions can never arise unless together we establish fertile conditions for balanced relationships.
After all, our associations are a reflection of our-self; both our fears and our aspirations.
Only deeply dedicated friends and truth seekers can balance these personal factors,
with the ideal of serving one’s fellow travelers.
There’s so much; way to much, I could say about what I’ve seen and experienced in community.
I just want to share what I’ve come to believe.
First I believe spiritual fellowship nurtured in community is a sacred condition,
which is largely absent from our lives in today’s culture, or when present it’s still largely dysfunctional.
You know the saying, “when the student is ready” then; let’s say the satsanga appears.
If we’re ever going to experience true spiritual community and I mean, in a totally new form,
we’re going to first need new ideas, new visions of community.
Ashrams and Hierarchal communities are based on archaic principles which carry a lot of baggage.
Such organizations are able to stumble along managing immature groups of people,
but they seldom satisfactorily address modern, let’s say new age aspirations; and I don’t mean just selfish desires.
Frankly I’ve experience more successful dynamic relations in business then I have in community,
but only because there were clearly formed and stated, shared goals and ideals informing every step along the way.
Relationships depend upon trust and trustworthiness.
Trust is something earned and it only arises from a deeply shared dedication to clearly stated ideals.
I’ll finally end now by affirming my belief that trust, honesty, and mutual dedication
are the heart and soul; the very life blood of true satsang;
and I sincerely pray that we may someday soon experience that divine blessing in our lives.
And as such that we may be worthy of the Guru’s blessing. Thank you once again.
Sincerely,
Bhima Noel -
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Re: Call for change
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 12:50 AMhey, Bhima -- ! namaste!
thanks for jumping into this discussion. it's such a critical subject for spiritual people to chew on and learn more about in our own approaches and ideas about community.
I really appreciate your experiences and comments about community.
you wrote:
"Ideal; truly functional conditions can never arise unless together we establish fertile conditions for balanced relationships."
and I wonder what you meant by, this, I mean, can you explain more about 'balanced relationships'? do you mean developing trust, honesty, and dedication, like in the last paragraph -- or is it something else?
I also thought this was quite interesting:
"First I believe spiritual fellowship nurtured in community is a sacred condition,
which is largely absent from our lives in today’s culture, or when present it’s still largely dysfunctional."
utterly agreed that spiritual community is sacred. should be. must be.
but, you know, we're babies, especially in the West, so we do toddle long in our baby steps, often completely oblivious to the sacredness in and around us. it's no one's fault, it's simply that we didn't learn these things from birth, and so we are often reinventing them as we go.
about today's spiritual communities being largely dysfunctional -- yes, and yet I think we have to examine carefully how and why they are so 'dysfunctional' -- I would assert that the dysfunctionality is a reflection of the collective awareness (or lack thereof) of the people in any given community. it's also a reflection of this Kali Yuga, which is a big fat mess in terms of clarity and divinity. and it's really a function of the deep purificatory nature of spiritual community -- to my mind, that's a little-understood, or even discussed, quality in spirituality.
as I understand it, if we really want to change the way our communities function, we have to change ourselves... and at least model the kinds of behavior and qualities we'd like to see in our whole community. (no guarantee, of course, that we'll have our expectations met! god has a great sense of humor!)
I lived in a community where some people had great depth, compassion, clarity, humility, dedication to the well-being of the entire group -- in short, a kind of spiritual maturity. some of the people had some of these qualities, mixed in with more negative qualities -- they didn't want to work to help everyone, or they were jealous of so-and-so for such-and-such, or were more self-absorbed in sadness, depression, fear, or whatever. some people had hardly ANY visible positive qualities -- were just super-difficult personalities, always causing conflict and anger, misunderstanding, rudeness, etc.
learning to handle the different personalities skillfully (including my own crap) was a real crash-course in spirituality that philosophy, meditation, and bhakti don't really address.
it was a great series of lessons, though, because now that I have 30 + students of my own, I really see WHY we all had to go through such a trial by fire (and a slow burn at that!) -- my students range in similar personality categories as my colleagues did!!!!!!!!! if I'd never learned to deal with mature spiritual characters and abusive, angry characters and everything in between -- I'd be completely lost dealing with my students today.
and I'm delighted to be planning a community with ALL of them, no matter what their personalities are like! -- in fact, I think maybe there will never be anyone's 'ideal' community in this world, it's too full of uncertainty, illusion, wacky stuff and challenging personalities -- but a community based in honesty and integrity, in sincere dedication to god and diving teaching maybe turn out to be pretty ideal just the way it is.
Alx
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Re: Call for change
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 1:56 PMDear Alx,
Thank you for your comments, questions and for your sincerity. And for the “work” you do.
In suggesting the sacred nature of community I’m thinking that true spiritual fellowship would be like a life raft, rescuing us from our delusions by its very nature, just as the Guru, disciple relationship is a raft to cross the sea our delusion. Both are based on true, selfless, spiritual love; the very oneness of the One.
Let us remember when we’re lucky enough to be in the raft, we still need to be attentive and act wisely, or we can fall from, or swamp the raft. And that’s what one would call bad karma.
Regarding my comments on the dysfunctional nature of most of our relationships, I didn’t intend to personally impeach any of us, but rather to suggest we need to find better ways to relate to each other, especially in community; which in our culture is largely egocetric, impersonal, commercial, and aloof. I won’t go into a criticism of our culture, only suggest what we all know; that commercialism feeds upon our ego and insecurities. As a result of ego glorification we’ve all learned to manipulate the other and this egoic path is the cause of our dysfunctionality. We really need not to be babies if we are sincere about our spiritual journey.
By functional relationships I mean progressive, constructive relations; Interrelationships which don’t focus on what is wrong with us, but rather ask how can we move forward constructively. I like the metaphor of a fertile garden because here is something which is quite natural, yet requires deep attention & subtle awareness.
Balanced relations just sounds right, but what it suggests to me is a certain spiritual maturity; one which isn’t always self obsessed, always thinking what do I want, what’s best for me. Or even thinking; what do I believe is best for the other; but rather one that asks what conditions can contribute to the success of our agreed upon goal. It seems so often ease and progress depends upon good communication, which I feel depends upon caring, kindness and honesty. You really need to care about succeeding; in doing what is best, or one won’t even be able to listen, therefore honest caring and kindness cultivates trust which promotes communication, which leads to progressive skill in successful association. This is fertile ground.
One quality of Ageless Wisdom Traditions is that the application of fundamental principles must be adapted to one’s time & clime. I personally feel that in developing spiritual community it’s not sufficient to imitate the past. If one hopes as I do to manifest a new age, an Aquarian age, then we need to transcend our worship of hierarchy and create a truer sense of universal fellowship, where each one is trusted to do what is right, because each one proofs to be trustworthy at some level. A true democracy depends upon the maturity of its participants. So I personally believe, that in a truly new age community no individual or small group of individuals should be allowed to impose their will upon others, neither from above nor from below. Participation should be volunteering beyond certain foundational requirements.
I’ve heard that Yoganandaji said “ignorance is 50/50 East and West”. I believe he was referring to ego and our journey on life’s path. The fact is we’re all born subject to ego. Yoganandaji also said, “if we were perfect we wouldn’t be here”. So somehow we must learn to treat this itch rather then just scratching it. ACIM suggests that spiritual healing depends upon forgiveness; and calls atonement, “at-one-ment”. I would suggest that perfection is a seed, ever present yet hidden in our consciousness; ready to germinate any moment. And in the moment of “selflessness awakening” that seed blossoms, and the flowering of our true love becomes something greater than we can even imagine. That flowering, multiplied by others, is true spiritual community. The seed is our dharma, which we must nurture, and that flower is our healing. This is known as the path of a bodhisattva and it is our path, the path of universal fellowship.
Best Wishes!
Bhima -
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Re: Call for change
Sun, September 2, 2007 - 6:21 PMYes Bhima...Hierarchy doesn't seem too advantageous, but I suppose something of it always exists based on time - implicitly or explicitly. The positives of community life around spiritual values and balancing inner and outer lives are so apparent to me on so many levels, spiritual, social, material, environmental etc...yet I hesitate to go foward towards some kind of association of that sort. It seems like it would be a big step for me to seek such a group: NY isn't such a great place to meet devotees. I wonder if it is worth it to seek such a congregation or stick with the association of people around me whose love is apparent, yet are not engaged in a definate spiritual practice: probably a common question! -
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Re: Call for change
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 4:56 PMDear Brian,
I have had some of the same thoughts you express.
Hierarchy is inherent in the dualistic world we live in.
It appears even in the coupling of spirit & nature.
Yet on a level higher than our separateness; Shiva–Shakti are truly one.
So people problems spring primarily from worshiping our delusion of separateness;
A delusion arising from ego.
Thus the problems which arise from hierarchy spring from a taint of ego.
Problems begin when we put ourselves above, or even below some other.
We would do better to stand beside each other.
The Guru is elevated due to transcendent compassion and humility.
The Guru’s wisdom rises above ego, thus we bow to that which we aspire too.
But only a fool places him or herself above others.
That is the ego taint we see corrupting the essential nature of hierarchy.
We live with egos and it corrupts, because domineering egos try to place themselves above others.
Any new age community should guard against an ego dominant structure.
A new age community structure should protect individuals
from the coercion of ego’s hierarchy, by enabling individual to prosper,
creating opportunities for each one to serve the other.
Thus natural leaders would be those who truly strive in deed to serve others.
In society it does seem important to live in relation to all kinds of people.
I think in an intentional community there are benefits and risks
to having more control over ones environment.
I mean there is a risk of isolation or separateness, which can create an “us or them” attitude.
Yet there is an advantage to sharing common goals, serving high ideals.
I write here now because I feel we are served well reaching out to others.
Just as we should honor all types of people around us with all their strengths and their suffering,
We should also honor those who try to walk a path with similar ideals.
To me the most important reason to build community
is to support the aspirations of creative individuals,
who don’t find enough support in our commercial culture.
If not for that I would have let it go long ago.
Best Wishes! -
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Re: Call for change
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 1:38 AMI think you're always going to find hierarchy in this world, despite everyone's best intentions to the contrary.
the point to me seems to be how to NAVIGATE skillfully through this, rather than trying to move away from it entirely and find a Utopian ideal.
the nature of this world and its operating principle, the G-O-D, the Generator, Operator, Destroyer, is that structures are always being created that are imperfect and then operating for a while and then being destroyed. endless karmas, endless cycle. even the avatars, like Rama and Krishna, Lahiri Mahasaya, Yogananda and others, weren't impervious to the illusions of this world or the hierarchies that other people like to erect around them. but they knew how to navigate through the Illusion successfully and get their work done, anyway.
I wanted to mention, though, Bhima's beautiful point about standing beside one another. putting a Guru on a pedestal is an understandable human tendency; but at a certain point it's a kind of insult to the divine that resides in each of us, and to the inner Guru who lives in our 3rd Eye. but still we do it, out of a sense of unworthiness, a lack of deserving divine consciousness and a lack of trust in our capacity.
painful.
communities will be fraught with all kinds of illusion -- it's natural.
but having the spiritual strength, commitment, and dedication to the truth can really go a long way towards people working through their spiritual blind spots and growing into a community where individuals care for one another in an active, loving way.
Alx
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